since she's a senior product manager of academic video online, or what some of us call Avon and Michelle Spitz, who is affectionately known as women of her word.
She's an awful audio, description. producer narrator sponsor, consultant, and she's a little bit modest about saying this, but she's also a philanthropist who really supports
a lot of people who are learning about audio description and learning how to do that, and to support filmmakers and doing that.
So it's a little tough with a audience like this exc excuse me to understand exactly where everybody is coming in in terms of their level of knowledge with regard to audio description.
So I am going to do a little tiny bit of an intro.
So forgive me if you are used to knowing about audio description.
But here at Purchase College, when I think about audio description, I think about all the different places where we could be using this technology and helping our students really digest a lot of the information that's coming at them and here.
We have a theater conservatory, so you could have audio description in live theaters or events.
Sorry in museum studies and exhibits there's a lot of audio description being used today.
We're going to be talking about movie movie theaters streaming and commercials.
That kind of audio description and in case you're not familiar with audio description, or haven't seen it.
I'm going to change my share. Oh, brian is here Okay.
Home, live
And this is an example of audio description. Can you see the hunger games panel?
Yes, great, Thank you. This is a example of audio description that we often use in training.
So you can. If you are cited, you can certainly close your eyes and imagine how helpful something like this would be in ingesting all of the information that people who are cited have
Signs on a tall wire fence read a district boundary.
No access beyond this point, and high voltage. Gatness steps through a gap in the wires and heads into the woods beyond.
She glances around before reaching into the hollow of a fallen tree.
She draws out a wooden bow from another tree, she plucks out a sheaf of arrows, and straps it over her shoulder,
Katness makes her way through thick green vegetation.
Okay, i'm gonna stop there because it goes on for a little bit, and I know we are a little short on time, but but that gives you an idea of what audio description really brings.
And there are 2 kinds of audio description when we talk about audio description. There is a standard audio description which works with the natural pauses of whatever the media is the movie and then there's extended which is really independent of
that
I promised a little bit of the legal landscape.
And I am not a legal scholar. I am not a lawyer by any means, and i'm somewhat self-taught in this area.
But my understanding of the legal landscape for where audio description sort of sits in is certainly within the Ada from 1990.
It was now 32 years old. Believe it or not, title 2 requires audio description for public entities and title.
3 requires audio description for places of public accommodation, including private organizations.
That provide public accommodation. So when you think about like sort of governmental things, you know trains, plans and automobiles right?
Those kinds of things that would be certainly covered in the 1973 rehabilitation act.
There. Section 5 O 4, and sections 5 Oh, 8, section, 504 prohibits discrimination against individuals with disabilities in public or private institutions programs or activities that receive Federal financial assistance and those agencies have
to provide auxiliary A. so hearing aids or can captioning those kinds of things would be required. More recently.
Section 5 oh, 8 received sort of a refresh, so during the Clinton administration in 1,998.
It was sort of the interwebs were added right
And that was bolstered a little bit, and then again in 2017 we see
The addition of the wackag standards for web information.
So a lot of the the standards that we use to judge whether or not our websites are compliant will also require audio description for online videos.
So that is a more significant, more recent change. When you think about 2017 and you sort of back out for the pandemic.
It was really only 5 years ago, right like there's not that much time when you think about it.
It's really quite recent for the fcc side we see the 20 first century communications and video accessibility act And that actually mandates that any content that Arizona television has to have captions on the online versions
but in 2,018 it started requiring again, 38 4 years ago, started requiring top commercial networks and affiliates to provide a minimum of 50 h of audio described content mostly that's focused on
children's programming and prime time, so where are we today a little bit more recent.
We talked about the 2017 refresh on the section 508 but we also have the 2016 amendment to title.
3 of the Ada, and a lot of this was born out of the Netflix lawsuit with the American Council for the blind, so they have to have a specified number of captioning devices in theaters and audio
description devices in theaters and it's based on the number of digitally equipped auditoriums in the theater.
So the bigger the theater when you're thinking about your big Amc.
And lows and whatnot, those are more likely to have audio description.
There does not seem to be that I could find any requirement for theaters that are analog only so locally.
Here. we have, like the Jacob burns theater that does a lot of classic films i'm not sure what the status of that is, but certainly if they're dealing with 16 films that's
gonna be a heavier. lift So i'm assuming that's why that is not covered, and then more locally for us in Sunni.
We have seen the development and implementation of laws within New York State.
So in 2,004 backing up Chapter 2 19 of the New York State education law actually states, though it doesn't specifically call out audio description.
It does state that we have to have the timely provision of alternate format materials in the higher ed setting, and that that's a shared responsibility of publishers and manufacturers.
Which is why schools like ours can attend to the to the publishers and say, Listen.
We need an accessible version of this and it's sort of somewhat the onus is on them.
They don't always provide and then locally for us in Sunni.
We have the electronic information, accessibility policy. That is sort of this umbrella policy that covers all of this sunnis with regard to what our vision is and what our process is and implementation are to make sure that the materials
we provide for our students and our coworkers is in fact accessible.
So i'm showing a graphic here which is really rudimentary.
But it was me trying to get around where the problems lie right.
Why are we even having this discussion? Because it seems pretty fairly straightforward that you would, if you're going to be using something in an educational setting?
It should be accessible. It shouldn't be a question that's that's the mill here that I live in.
But that is not necessarily the reality. So this graphic is something I was playing with, which is just a Venn diagram of 2 intersecting circles. On the one side you have filmmakers on the other side you have distributors
and in the middle is the technology and the platforms and actually there's probably another circle that belongs in there that we'll talk about.
So i'm gonna give this over to stacey and Brian to talk about what's happening with vendors when we have this intersection between filmmakers and distributors?
Where, where are the sticking points for you, and what are the challenges, and what are the successes?
Sure. Thanks, Rebecca, and I i'll go ahead and proactively apologize that i'm in a bit of a black hole here.
If you can't tell I am in a hotel room in Texas.
So playing around with some lighting, and from just sitting on the bed next to the window.
This was the best I was able to come up with, but also thank you for allowing us to to join the conversation today.
Accessibility is extremely important to us. swing today campus and ensuring access to the films that we provide schools for everyone.
As Rebecca mentioned, descriptive audio is one of those kind of challenging areas that I I think the the movie studios and the content that we provide are still kind of evolving.
Certainly for their newer release Films audio description is a part of of really the majority of those that are coming available.
If you're not familiar with swing digital campus we partner with studios, Disney Warner, brothers sony paramount, really all the major studios that are out there and offering streaming access to colleges and universities,
but these studios, most of their new content certainly has audio description available.
At least as part of the theatrical release, and then a lot of that ultimately translates down into the Dvd.
And blu-ray from our perspective. as it relates to really all content that we that we provide our limitations really fall around.
What resources are available from those content providers so what is available from our studio partners that's what essentially dictates when that we're able to provide a resource and how we're able to provide it with certain
technical limitations. in the case of audio description plan a factor as well.
So with the with the studio type content that we have based on the audio description Project.
It seems that there's roughly 1,500 ish kind of Dvds and blu-rays right now that have a audio description available on those tracks while we provide a streaming research those tracks are
similar to the digital files that we actually acquire. and then fulfilling to our streaming access.
And so for us, that's a gauge of kind of the the baseline, essentially a volume of films that we offered, or we would be able to offer with audio description to clarify we do not
currently promote descriptive audio files with our content.
This is an internal, systematic limitation that we are currently building towards, but it's not just simply a user interface or user experience limitation from our and one of the big challenges that we've identified in in kind of heading down
this road is that limited set of content, even talking these 1,500 Dvds, these blue rays that are out there, certainly not all of those we have rights for within our catalog so we we boil that down into a
bit of a of a subset of that amount and Then ultimately, we need those files from our friends at all of our studios, which they've been gracious to begin providing so in the same way.
We do it. close captions. In the same way we do with a lot of the other language files that we get with our our resources.
We have begun acquiring the audio description files every new film that we acquire from our studio partners when it's available.
At the time of ordering again. Just I I wanna I wanna re-emphasize the fact that through the through the digital campus platform we do not currently provide audio description through the interface.
But it is something that we are working to words and we've identified step. one is that is is kind of building this library of those files, and a house to have a resource that is more about the point we are able to roll this
item out again. We have some not only user interface user experience.
Items that we're working to overcome as far as how we display descriptive audio some of the challenges, in at least, is that our systems are built currently relate to kind of what we're exposing
is it clear what's being offered is there's a you're really kind of offering a couple of different English audio tracks that we have to build around and then ultimately systematically our our digital fulfillment
team has to be best to be. This is the overhaul.
To allow for this additional audio track that wasn't previously there.
And so all of those items we are actively working through internally right now, as a way of being able to provide descriptive audio in the future, we've got a couple of other roadmap items that we have
to overcome. before, where we get to that point. Some of those are getting ready to roll out here late summer.
We are completely overall in our entire kind of media.
Best functionality, our entire dashboard management of our system from an administrative perspective at a school level we are working to release, and then we'll transition out of that and and descriptive audio and then the interface
associated with that is certainly at the top of our list of priorities.
So we're hoping for some time in 2,023 that we're able to start offering that 2 campuses
Thank you so much, Brian. I know that with several vet with a couple of vendors. and then, Michelle, there may be a lot of questions.
Does anybody have any questions right now for Brian with regard to Swanks planning roadmap, you can also pop those in the chat, and we'll make sure that they get addressed.
Okay, so, Sarah, do you wanna pop in sarah Brennan is the senior project manager of academic video online, which is another one of our academic streaming databases doesn't do as much big box office.
But there's a little bit in there there's some sunny picture classics and some other films that we we embrace.
Hi! everyone really glad to be here. Thanks for the invitation.
Reckon shannon So like spank we're an academic streaming video resource that's available to all assuming libraries called the academic video online and a lot of
brian's points. We were We wish that all of the videos that are in our database that come from other filmmakers and publishers and producer partners came with audio description files and the Unfortunately, reality is they
don't for a lot of reasons a lot of filmmakers don't prioritize creating audio description, or they don't see the cost benefit analysis to doing that they operate on thin profit
margins, usually especially in the independent film world. or they it just doesn't occur to them that that's something they should be producing as a major asset alongside the phone.
And so we continue to kind of pressure and advocate and encourage them to do that.
But because they don't. most of the time we create audio description ourselves for on demand. when a student tells us through the library or the office of disabilities that they need in the accommodation.
Then we use outside vendors to go ahead and create audio description for that film, and add it into the database.
And so that's the service that we started maybe 18 months ago or so.
And a lot of really great library advocates like Rebecca.
Let us know that it was an ongoing need and we're really good advocates for students who need that.
And so we took some time and thought about how to bring that to life in a meaningful way, and we're really pleased and grateful for all the advice, and input that we've been able to do that so the bottom line is a
student who is assigned to watch a video. If they need an accommodation, they let either the office of disabilities now, or the library, and that information gets passed to us, and then we use it third party to create the audio
description. We operate around a 2 to 3 week turnaround time.
We try to be as fast as we can as fast as the vendor can go, and then we're slowly building the library of titles that have audio description, so we're up around a 100 today, and growing and really
encourage all the sunny campus libraries here today to keep that as an option in your mind that it is available for academic video online titles.
I have to say I wanna I wanna thank you for all of your help and for listening, because
When when a school is approached with an issue like this, and we want to be able to provide for our students, often we don't have the ability to do that.
So you know, Sometimes it's prohibitively expensive for us and it's complicated right So when you're dealing with a title, and this is going to be a great foray into michelle when you're
dealing with the title that's complex that may have multiple you know languages or whatever that that becomes x exponentially more expensive, more difficult, and more nuance.
So. one of the things that I think is so important that we have Michelle here for is to really talk about what the landscape of, you know. performance interpretation.
How is that changing? How is the education for this changing?
And Michelle knows a great deal about the festival circuit.
So, Michelle, I am going to let you introduce yourself a little bit more ably.
Hello, everyone, Thank you so much for having me. and and actually thank you.
Brian and Sarah for your efforts it makes me very happy to hear the growth and the potential of what's going to be happening.
This is what I you know my heart's work is all my life's work in terms of accessibility.
And first, I wanted to comment that I do feel very strongly that in and out of the classroom that audio, description and captioning are equal assets and equal access to everything, and that they should be considered with the same sort of
emphasis that I feel and benefit they both provide.
So whether or not it is being taught within the classroom setting in the future media makers.
The next generation of media makers, because I do a lot of guest lecturing as well.
Also access to the content that's coming in of which you are also speaking about, and the festival circuit.
This is a very interesting layer that's now happening not only in the bestest circuit, but also with a Tv academy.
The film Academy everywhere that films will be considered, watched, judged, and then ultimately chosen for festival and then execution and the festival level of accessibility.
So, for example, right now i'm currently in conversation with Rebecca, and they are now creating audio description and accessibility all the way around access into the buildings access within the screenings themselves. and They'll have a dedicated
page on the website for access for the film themselves and the settings, which is really impressive.
So this is a first when I say comprehensive First, for tribeca Sun Dance is a festival that embraces a while ago south by Southwest has embraced it and of course any films
that the content is based on disability. The original concept was what we of course, naturally those organically need to be audio described and captioned.
So caption being mandated now, on the circuit of platforms has to have that media asset audio description.
And you know, as we're talking about it is mandated in certain settings as we talked about today.
But it is not mandated like captions are and that's where the disconnect is.
So when you have the majority of streamers the large streamers that are now requiring those assets, the onus is on often the filmmaker to utilize one of their vendors, and also absorb the cost for the most
part there's a there's a number a small number that produce it and handle the cost on their own.
So filmmakers should have the idea whether they're existing filmmakers or upcoming filmmakers or media makers, that the ideal situation would be that the asset is created early on and to find
the means in which to build it into their budget, or perhaps find grants. I provide grants.
I do this on an annual basis to produce income audio description, and that's been sort of my approach for many years.
I work in a lot of documentaries, and I work on a lot of content about disability and otherwise.
And so if that is built into the mindset, to begin with and into the budget, then those films are going to go out into the ether for film festivals for educational platforms for distribution, and exhibition,
right, but not everybody is in a position to create that. But it is a wonderful mindset to embed early on, which does create for a more universal experience in terms of many different audiences.
The the other at the other aspect that comes into places, and not everybody is aware of how this works, but some of the distribution as far as providing the assets to them.
Some of the distributors, maybe the one off the independent films.
Or what have you unique distribution which takes place all the time?
They may not understand the assets or the value of it so it may get lost in its translation in terms of maybe to you know, the distribution arm of what they're doing together.
Could be theatrical could be streaming, and then they may also align with a transportation distributor.
So if that be the case sometimes, that asset doesn't get taken to even the transportation.
So someone on the airplane or on a cruise line or on a train don't have access so part of it is learning about what it is.
How do you create it? How do you build the budget around it?
And how do you follow the project management of the assets with your distributor? with your sales?
Rep, and then following it, To be sure, it gets the finish line, and this is where a lot of the assets are not necessarily in perfect alignment.
Everybody gets very excited about getting a distributor, and they forget they need to follow.
Some of this. So this is where some of the the links in the chain are broken, and then those assets some times are repurposed.
They are also recreated if it goes to another distributor down the road.
So there's a lot of things that happen along the way but the titles that you will find that, or more typically not always audio describe, or the foreign titles, because maybe they were audio describe or not in their language where the you
know the language the film was based out of whatever country that is, and then other times they will be.
But if you go to a movie theater today you'll find that the majority of movies are audio describing caption and the handful, or one or 2 that are not, might be a foreign title or a distributed haven't quite
come on board yet, but that's less likely than not today. So what I what I want to convey is that we have come so far, and we are going to go a lot further.
The community. The low vision and blind community have been pushing so hard in the last number of years, but particularly this last year, given where the world has been and access to everything, and they also are participating in narrating audio description they are
participating in being involved in the process, because it is about them.
Of course, and so the voices are very loud and very strong, and the Hollywood, if you want to call it Hollywood connection.
Entertainment connection. There was sort of a murky connection there now between the community and that entity.
Or, if you want to call it that entity, it is now merging and coming together.
So it almost feels politically incorrect if I may say that to not accommodate these needs so it really is across the board in the next 5 years, I do think it's some point in time audio description will
be mandated as is captioning and then we won't have some of these issues.
They will disappear, and we'll be in a more universally accessible media platform.
So that's basically my perspective. in my contribution towards awareness and building it in as early as I can, and if not, then helping those that need help creating the assets.
And I just congratulate everybody, including Rebecca for bringing the awareness and talking about it more and more.
But it's really quite prevalent now, thank you michelle it's a actually a perfect entree to the poster that you mentioned behind me.
So i've always struggled with whether or not to describe myself at the beginning of a panel a lot of people will go through descriptions of you know.
I'm heavy set gray middle-aged woman with a green shirt and a tie.
You know. but i've been listening to a lot of people on Twitter, and they're like, Yeah, we don't really care like That's not really something that we need to know about you However, what I would say is what's
behind me. you do need to know and that's my poster which I love, which says, if you embrace diversity, but an ignore disability, you're doing it wrong, and So I think what Michelle is talking about
is this confluence of moments that were in in the overall Zeitgeist right that that we've had the the Black Lives matter.
We've had the me too movement we've had all of these sort of social movements, and you know going into Covid.
It was very clear to me very early on that this was either going to be sync or swim for a lot of people in a really serious way, and I think for some people, for some of the people in the disability landscape, people who
have low hearing, or hard of hearing it's been wonderful because everybody is on zoom, and you can see my lips, and you can lip read, and it's been a real boon for them.
But for others they've really been left behind and then as we see ourselves coming back to quote normal.
We see we see the struggle of the people who were doing well suddenly like, Hey, wait a minute, Don't take that bolstering away from me.
So we're at this very interesting sort of agitated moment. I think, in excessive in the accessibility landscape. and it's one of the things that Michelle and I have talked about quite openly that you know
this really needs to be a holistic approach if we're gonna make forward movement.
So not just our vendors right? Our vendors need The filmmakers need the distributors.
They need the film students and the film faculty to also really pay attention to this, to increase the audiences that they're gonna have and increase the potential for their film to do.
Well whether it's at a festival or beyond so it's been a really for me a really interesting education.
Certainly by bits. One of the things that that we sort of did not really talk about are some of the risks that people take when they don't think about audio description from the start.
So i'm just gonna share this slide. if they don't design with audio description from the start they need to shop the film around and connect with the distributor.
As Michelle was talking about, those distributors might charge fees for some peddling, close captioning or audio description.
Those distributors might also reduce the their outlay by engaging artificial intelligence to create an audio description track, and that may be artistically considered subpar, depending on what that filmmaker was trying to
achieve. So again, thinking about this earlier avoids that problem long term, and then some places might offload the audio description to a separate file or app.
And we saw this recently. I wanna say the super Bowl half time show had an within that correct Michelle.
They had an audio description. They got on a separate app and they'll find it. No, i'm gonna I may.
I comment on that for just a moment, let me interrupt you.
Actually what happened is the shows are audio described in lifetime.
Their live audio described, and then they are also available on an app.
Sometimes the spectrum app. So people have options depending on where they are and what their access is to cable and otherwise.
So it acts it's both it's not one without the other.
Yeah, So do you have experience, Michelle, with with the people who have had to engage distributors with the sort of ai audio description.
And how has that been going? I am of course i'm aware of it?
I I have a and I have to. I have to sort of respond in the middle here, because if it meant that audio description was not included in the media, and the alternate option is not as desirable, but does provide access naturally
the answer for most people would be, Of course we want to have it in the perfect world.
Those of us that produce audio description of voice audio description.
It does add, you know. real world live person to it and create something else.
But you know, we have to consider where the world is going today, and it is going in a direction of Ai technology.
And what have you in their housing media in the cloud and they're able to change and edit, and do what they need to do.
So there's an affordability aspect to it and then there is accessibility asset to it.
So it's going to be a playing field in the future probably of all of the above.
But that is the reality of where we are today. I guess that would be my question for Sarah, then, is that what you are using at Alexander Street?
Is it artificial, intelligent? Is it a company that does?
Does the audio description by artificial intelligence, or is it
Is it human? mediated or both? Yeah. So we We explored a bunch of different vendor options.
Obviously cost is a factor. it's not the only factor and in the end we decided to use human skilled labor to do it.
Just the quality is so much better. And I do appreciate that a machine learning tool could help us add audio description to at scale to tens of thousands of videos for a fraction of the cost.
But at this point right now, we're really focused on the quality. we want that accessibility to meet that students accommodation really well.
So we're choosing school labor for now yeah it may I interject one more thing?
It it as you had just commented on that Decapa and Dcmp.
They are often providing funding to create audio description.
They have individuals that are there. some also people with disabilities it's so across the map.
But imagination video books is also doing audio describe video books.
And so we do have and that's up to I believe age 12 the content that's distributed to the school system.
So all of those, you know, have options for the school system, and they do include live voices.
I was gonna say as I was, as I was trying to teach myself the legal landscape a little bit.
One of the things that struck me was that a lot of the emphasis is on children's programming, and I think that that's wonderful.
But for me I also think it's a little bit like making a big deal out of your birthday when you're young, and then nobody cares. when you're older.
What happens like, How are we gonna get there fast enough for these kids? We've gotten used to audio description to actually have a robust information on life.
Later. I think it's in I think it's in the future.
I think it's coming. it's an evolution and it's it's baby steps, but the baby steps are turning into much bigger steps now, so I I think it's a wishless but I do think we're heading
in that direction a number of years ago I would have said that we have a long way to go, but I think we're we're going there, and with more time and more advocacy, and more voices speaking up and and the world, ran of
the technology. I think you're gonna find this is an organic evolution over time.
It may not happen very quickly, but it it eventually will convert into some of the things you're talking about.
Yeah, and I think I think we're at the point that we can open this up for other people to have you know comments or questions.
But one of the things. that i've often thought about is sort of the filmmaker breast practices and educating and filmmakers.
Of course, because we're at a phone conservatory so i'm, always thinking about what the branches of accessibility sort of mean for the roots of our system, and I had come up with a little bit of a slide on this
where I was talking about. You know one of the things we teach is sort of a universal design approach.
When we do training with faculty and i've been encouraging them to sort of consider audio description as a part of that, and some faculty have have really been attracted to that some faculty don't know where to
start. So that is definitely, I think, a maybe a gap skill set in some of our educational environments.
But that in some of my reading it was clear that audio description can also provide another potential creative path.
So when you think about all of the actors out there, right?
All of the people who are looking to be involved in the creative arts.
This is another creative path in and of itself. There is a newance to audio description, and there is an art to it.
As you all know, michelle and as I was saying earlier I think it's important that young filmmakers are encouraged to consider their audiences more widely when i'm you know a young filmmaker and i'm
pitching to get my film into a festival I don't know necessary.
I may know if that festival is is has a focus on accessibility.
But I may not know if anybody on the governing board that's making the decision actually has a an accessibility need. and I would imagine that if my film went into that into that contest with those assets or with that idea or with that
in my roadmap that that could only help me
And then, you know, sort of thinking about this sort of lack of specialized publications on teaching accessibility and its integration into industry workflows right, especially in the context of filmmaking courses.
I I did not add my bibliography to the slides yet, but I will do so afterwards.
You can read some of the literature that I read and that the exploration of audio description, because it is its own art because it is so nuanced, can really help film students boost their analytical skills when
they're thinking about the overall you know message and artistry that they're trying to get across.
May say one more thing about the film festival circuit if I have just have a moment.
I'm Sorry it takes much time but it's important to comment on this.
If if somebody is submitting their content to a film festival, if that film festival which a lot of them do ask for the audio description and captioning in the consideration stages, Okay, not when they've been
selected, then that will automatically be an option for them to then submit it.
I suggest to people if they have not been asked, that to ask the film festival, whether or not they are utilizing audio description and captioning.
If they're not I tell them to call me because I'm gonna call that film festival Yeah, that's great advocacy.
But that's really you need it goes both ways and you're not asking. You're not thinking if you're offering them.
They're thinking So it's a 2 way street there and That's how that messaging gets more universal.
So we have a question from someone in the audience. Tim, David, what are the thoughts from the panel?
On offering a separate file with audio descriptions burned in, I found that sometimes people don't see the link to the second video, and still think that the video is not audio described.
Yeah, so that's that's how we Oh, i'm Sorry Brian.
That's how we manage it in activity online. we have 2 separate assets. And I think our our dream on our roadmap is to consolidate those like Brian is mentioning.
So that a user has multiple audio options to select from sort of like you'd see with foreign language subtitles.
And so we're hoping, to get there. maybe later this year, early next year. That is definitely the ideal state and what we have today offering, you know, the film And then the film audio described version as a separate file is is sort
of a placeholder a way for us to make it available to you today.
While we worked on sort of longer term ui enhancements and that's very common.
I think most people are in that situation in fact neo doesn't even have the option for audio description either.
So I think, posting 2 versions is true some people don't realize there is another version to see.
So I there's something there as far as directing them as to where to go, so they can find that information.
But in the perfect world the toggling, on and off, which is an organic process when they're streaming a film, is really what we want to see happen across the board, because it becomes the same platform in which to utilize and access all the
assets. Yeah. And as Sarah and michelle kind of alluded to, I mean the the toggling is is from a technical perspective, certainly more more complex to develop.
We've done some screenings where we do have separate files.
We've been able to show film, of this trimming platform in separate files, and there were kind of early stages on that.
But to sarah's point I think we're I think we're targeting it with kind of our our large scale.
Go live as being more of an interface of toggling on and off, just to make the user experience that much more significant.
That's great Yeah, I was gonna say from the universal design perspective.
Of course, what we think about in the educational sector is Can we offer the same product easily without having to necessarily offer a sort of siloed one?
And so we're constantly trying to do that that's not always possible.
It's not always possible, even with pdfs that we have. So sometimes, you know, you know, we need to have that negotiation, and some of that can rest on what are the educational objectives of using the content and that can help guide
our deliberations on how best to handle it in the end.
But more than not having it is better than not
Okay, I don't see any other questions in the chat but i'd love to hear from some of our participants.
We have about 30 people on the call so i'd love to hear what's happening at your institutions.
If you're willing
Hi there, I I don't want to you know keep the same topic.
I know there's there's a lot of other things to discuss.
But you know, so many of the social media platforms are utilized and education video.
And you know that was one of the reasons I asked that question is that you know, these major sites like Youtube still don't have a way to turn the audio descript. They they've added captions thankfully.
Some of them have You know a few of the platforms, you audio?
Sorry auto transcription, only they don't have a way to edit those captions which is which is frustrating.
But but again, do not offer a way to have audio descriptions.
Turned on and off and you know it's it's frustrating to try and post educational or any content to social media.
When you have to do those workarounds and you know i'd love to find you know i've reached out to a few of the large platforms like Instagram, and and Youtube with you know very little reaction of
course. you know, I think that'd be a larger a larger group of people approaching them.
But but it is frustrating to to try and keep content.
Accessible, but still use social media platforms that's that's actually very true.
I think that I think that Youtube was doing a beta stage of description.
From what I gather in my mind that their Youtube channel is offering audio description, but not Youtube as social media per se
But I did hear that at 1 point I am not as well versed in social media, and how audio description would be utilized other than I know.
Facebook has audio description. And again, I I think the same problem is the technology based on what everyone is.
Of course, talking about is, why is this so challenging what is it that's making it so challenging?
Why do things have to be posted separately and Why can't it be?
Something built in it would be a universal platform in which all the different, You know, people would have access to to toggle on and off, and I don't know what that requires to make that happen.
But if vimeo of all places which you know is the platform for so much media that i'm previewing for my work before I decide to work on a project doesn't even have that option that tells me there is
a There's a roadblock here, and an expense and a technology that has not been.
Should we say finest and made, should I say very easily adapted. and it's again not quite my area. but I also am equally frustrated with that.
And I can imagine on an education level and social media level.
This is this is a problem still, but with the world we're living. And I can't imagine why this is so challenging.
Yeah, and I think you know to to tim's point you know your one voice as a user.
And an advocate. I think about this a lot.
I think about the collective voices, and when I look at all of the previous movements that we've sort of been stewing in.
I see how important it is for all these voices to come together.
It's one of the reasons why I am not an audio description expert.
I know I am not a legal expert, but why I wanted to have this discussion today.
Today, because I feel as if, if we are not all on the same page about asking about continuing to ask about tracking needs, about speaking up about working with our consortium, working with our policy documents, working with our electronic information, accessibility,
documents, asking when we look at V paths, all of those things, If we don't get active in doing that, we are leaving people to the position that Tim is in that it is just you. And so we can lead in in this and I think and I think in some ways,
we have, I mean I was absolutely beyond thrilled. I had had a discussion with Sarah years ago, I think, in 2018 and when the the pandemic hit and I needed an audio described video I was like, hey?
Whatever happened to that, I could really use that for this title, and within 22 h, although I know that that I should not set that expectation.
But within 22 h I had that product. It was an amazingly powerful moment.
The next time. It was 17 days just as powerful if I can get faculty to plan ahead, and I can, and I can utilize that time.
It's worth the weight to have everybody included on that lesson.
So I appreciate that comment, Tim. I know that John had wanted to speak
Yeah, actually. thank you. And I apologize. I showed up late for this event, and the my previous meeting just took longer than expected.
This topic has really set my imagination on fire we had a a
I don't know how many students with the visual issues. we've had in the past, but I was made eit officer a year ago, and I was told that we we had this challenge. Then I had an instructor who wanted to use
a few videos in this class. if most of which didn't have 80 tracks and
So I began to to research it and i've got a couple of interns working for me, and I said, Hey, folks, how about we?
We try to pull one of these off, and it was fun. it was.
It was a great experience for them. I I I have a a graduate certificate and creative writing and so I can see how it could end up being exercises for creative writing students you know
and I just see the potential and the possibilities are endless here. and so I can't wait to get a hold of the the recording.
To this. I I really want to know. more. about this and you have a very enthusiastic participants supporter, and whatever else you want to call it.
But i'm looking for forward to getting way more involved in this topic in the science, in part, as as you describe it.
So one of the one of the things John that that makes me think of is one of the articles that I read about teaching filmmaking students audio description that the overwhelming thing that they walked away with was a new understanding
of their content and what they were trying to achieve, and the possibility for it.
So there it is exciting. It is also abhorrently difficult. If you don't know what you're doing, I can tell you.
I just just a just to try it out I I We were working with a title called Tails of the warrior which has a lot of information about the warrior who are
I don't want to say trans because They don't keep that for that persona forever.
They it's generally short lived but often men who take on the persona of a woman and have relationships during a period of time in their lives, and trying to just describe even the scene there was So much information that it really makes
you realize how, the complete dearth that there would be even watching a documentary which is narrated if you don't have that visual information, and that nuance
Doing an audio description for the movie philadelphia and you know there's so much that that subtlety that's happening visually, you know the the whole scene where Tom Hanks is first introduced
to the the the Washington character there at Dunzel Washington, and you know it.
You don't see how Washington is. just repulsed by this Aids victim, and it's so important to the story because he transitions into actually, you know.
Well, you probably know the story, and if you don't know and spoil it.
But you know, how do you describe that? within the pauses of the dialogue?
It's just it's such a challenge and and I love it. I mean I'm always up for a challenge. Well, remember there are 2 tie types of audio description an extended audio description you don't have to do within
the pauses, so that offers a different amount of flexibility, and I would imagine Michelle would know more about when you decide to do extended audio description.
I don't know I was just gonna quickly click we comment on. By the way, that's wonderful, and i'm glad you're having fun with it. I think most people when there's what we do is and what I do is I start
with a transcript when I have a transcript of the film to work with I'm able to see how that Creator created the content Right?
And We're working working within time code and of course there's languaging limitations to what we can and cannot say not so much in Europe and other parts of the world.
But in the Us. or some limitations and one thing we're not really supposed to do is to interpret and in an emotion, so to speak, we're there to describe what that emotion might look like on facial features or You
know body language, but not necessarily that and that's where I think a lot of people get confused, and you're right.
Creative writing is a great way to sort of integrate what audio description can be.
But we also have to be careful that we're not overdescribing and sort of overstepping where we need to be, because essentially what we do is, we are a complement to the content, and therefore we're not there to
distract, or there to complement, and our voices become sort of a a nuanced neutrality.
That is a beautiful compliment to what's happening on screen so I see so many different writers, and I work with a lot of different writers.
I hired different writers, and it's interesting to watch different people's style.
I like being a little more creative myself, but I also have to be very careful into what I take on.
So I appreciate the joy of doing it, and certainly kind of the creative process of 3 years to figure out how it works, and to your point real quickly, the extended audio description is more typically used and for example, maybe commercials, marketing
trailers Educational you could stop the media talk about it evaluated and in terms of disabilities, and of course, with audio description, it helps those that have cognitive processing issues.
As well or don't necessarily can take in that much information so there's a lot of different reasons all of this is used, it's not.
It's not just for low vision and blind audiences So and it's just a grace anecdote.
If you're doing something else in the house you want to listen to an audio movie as opposed to an audio book.
So there you have it so. Anyhow, I can appreciate that.
I just want to comment on it. So we did have one , , So we do have one question from a Rio How can extended ad work if separate audio is available.
The video is not pausing to give time for the description that's a certain nuance it has to be built in, I believe, and I haven't done extended audio description yet but I've seen it so I
think it has to be built into the the mix and the pausing of the video.
From what I am assuming right now. but again not having experience myself with it, you'd have to probably read a little bit more about it.
But I know the platforms in which it's used yeah i'm assuming it's a it's another separate track, and then, when the extended ab section is done it on pauses it's Yeah, it's happening
technically in the back end of the platform. Wonderful! alright!
I know we only have 2 min left I think that this has been wonderful foray into audio description for a lot of us who don't know some of the innards, and I really appreciate the vendors you know
Sarah Rebecca Glenn has his That's okay, Shannon So I was actually just going to comment.
Sarah took care of what I was going to say about the extended audio description.
But for those that are looking at Youtube and I hear the frustration with Still, you know, social media platforms not keeping up with the times, and it's it's difficult.
But they are working on a beta for audio description tracks.
I heard it was supposed to come out last year, so you know development times change
But there is a project through the smith, Kettlewell I Institute called you describe, and it's you describe Org that you uses volunteers to describe the videos.
And you know to michelle's point the descriptions may not be perfect, but it's another way to get access to that content.
I just wanted to make sure that that information was out there as well.
Can you go ahead and put that into the chat that would be terrific, and i'm not sure.
Smith Caterwell. If you could just make sure that that's in there as well.
That would be terrific. Does anybody have any final questions cause I know we're at time
I believe that we will be obviously more properly captioning this entire presentation.
Is that correct, Shannon? and we'll be making it available with my slides?
Some of you may have seen my Google slides and in the chat.
So we'll clean those up and put those out as Well, what's the timing on that shannon?
As soon as we get all the information perfect.
I cannot thank my partners enough for being here today. you know Stacy and Brian at Swing, and Sarah at Avon.
You have been Really, stallwart partners for me and make me feel like I'm getting somewhere with a lot of what i'm doing.
So it's really so satisfying work that i'm doing. and i'm so grateful to have connected through Professor Leaf to meet Michelle and work with her on a couple of occasions so hopefully this is just the
beginning of more connections like that and hopefully you'll be coming and talking to our film students and faculty.