Mark McBride: Hey, Michelle, it's Mark Shannon
Mark McBride: Let me know. He wasn't gonna make it either. So once the folks from paywall come in and I think we get every quarter. How's everyone doing today.
Thanks.
yr12: I'm okay.
Mark McBride: You're 12 is. Okay. Who's your 12
Mark McBride: On how you doing,
yr12: Are you
yr12: Your Cloud Yes that's me.
Mark McBride: I see Jason from on paywalls here.
Mark McBride: Jason. Can you hear me.
Jason Priem: Yeah, I can hear you.
Mark McBride: Alright, Michelle.
Mark McBride: In the shared services. She's going to record this, and then we'll share it out with everyone. After the presentation. How's that sound.
yr12: Sounds great.
Mark McBride: All right, I heard you, it's standing room only for your presentation and big winter so you guys are getting increasingly more popular thanks for
Jason Priem: Time for us again today. Yeah, thank you. And, uh, for those who are here on the call that I missed. I just want to apologize in person.
Jason Priem: Turned out it was our first first time ever having a booth at mid winter and it just all went really badly and just kind of
Jason Priem: Freaked out and end up a lot of stuff falling out. And I just wanted to really apologize, though. It's like super professionals not give you guys a heads up, and we were we're definitely that will happen again.
Mark McBride: Well, we appreciate that. Thank you.
Jason Priem: Well, thank you guys for your patience and yeah like said it. That'll definitely the last time that happens.
Jason Priem: So yeah, so in terms of what you want me to talk about today. I'm guessing just kind of go through the same slides before and then a little bit of a demo of the tool again.
Mark McBride: Yeah and if anybody in the call has any anything specific that they may want to throw in chat, anything that they want to see addressed in the presentation. Why don't you go ahead and do that on monitor chat, Jason.
Jason Priem: Okay.
Mark McBride: Great just kind of tea. Those questions up at the top. That's good.
Jason Priem: Yeah, that sounds fantastic.
Jason Priem: All right, great. Let me pull up my
Jason Priem: slides here, and I'm gonna share my screen.
Jason Priem: And we've got about an hour. Is that right,
Mark McBride: Yeah, that's great.
Jason Priem: Okay, great. Okay, sure.
Jason Priem: Okay, so hopefully I'll see
Jason Priem: Right now some slides. Is that right,
Present.
Jason Priem: Mark Can y'all see those slides.
Mark McBride: Yes, we can.
Jason Priem: All right, fantastic. Um so yeah so unpayable is a complete open and legal index of open access. So that's kind of
Jason Priem: We have a bunch of tools that use the index. But at its core on pay what isn't index. And I like to describe it.
Jason Priem: As a card catalog. When I was a kid, I used to love this little card catalog at the library, which didn't kind of dates me, but I still have a
Jason Priem: soft spot. So I think of it as this card catalog, because we're going to tell you where anything that's open access is and we start with 110 cross ref metadata records and then to that we add all of the green open access in the world. So any
Jason Priem: Academic repository anywhere in the world over 5000 repositories requirements from all of those. And then finally, we add 50,000 journals worth of, oh, as well. So if it's bronze gold or hybrid away.
Jason Priem: Again anywhere in the world for that and we're going to finally get this one index. If something is open access in the world we know about it and it's in this index.
Jason Priem: So you're actually already use an unpaid wall if you use any of these other pretty much any commercial discovery tool in the in the academic space is already using unpayable data.
Jason Priem: And they use it to put a little link in search results, and if so, if you look at search results. And next time you're in there. If you see a little link that says, Open Access that's coming from us.
Jason Priem: And we also, as well as being using all these tools are also using a lot of policy contexts. So
Jason Priem: The United Kingdom ref research excellence framework thing their big six year every six year evaluation of their whole
Jason Priem: research infrastructure that uses us to try and decide if things are open access or not, which is a big part of their evaluation.
Jason Priem: We're using the European Open Science Monitor the German Open Science Monitor. So the reason I'm bringing all this up is because we're kind of a small company, but we are
Jason Priem: Pretty much trusted worldwide when it comes to open access, and that one little niche, we're pretty much that the main folks doing it.
Jason Priem: So because me and Heather, my co founder started off as researchers, once we built this thing we want to do some research on what we're finding so we we published paper with a bunch of CO authors about
Jason Priem: Open Access now and what we project open access to be in the future and to do that we we wanted to be a little bit
Jason Priem: You know, be a little more scientific about in some folks events. We have this very complicated sort of
Jason Priem: Mathematical model that we used to project what the future will look like. Ironically,
Jason Priem: It if we probably late a ruler up alongside the line and then the projection that way, we've probably got the exact same results, but it was fun.
Jason Priem: I'm going to be a little of a simplified version of that. Just to make one simple point and that is right now 50% of the views of scholarly literature.
Jason Priem: Could be fulfilled by open access, that is to say there's an open access version out there somewhere 50% of the time.
Jason Priem: And open access and an open access version that unpayable knows about. And then if you want to, like I said project for years in the future 70% of the time.
Jason Priem: That someone looks at a scholarly article, there's an open access version out there that I'm able knows about. So that's a pretty significant change in the scholarly
Jason Priem: Ecosystem since kind of back in the day when everything had to be purchased and in fact we can take the same graph.
Jason Priem: And I'm going to just flip it upside down and now we can get this is what percentage of the time you need a subscription. So this is just the opposite of what we were saying before, so
Jason Priem: About 50% of the time right now. You need a subscription to view the thing you're looking at
Jason Priem: In four years 30% of the time you're going to need a subscription to view what you're looking at.
Jason Priem: So what we can see from this graph this gray graph. Is it the value of actually subscribing to a journal is collapsing. Since more and more we can fulfill that usage with open access to the value of a subscription is collapsing and that
Jason Priem: That is why everybody's subscription prices keep dropping
Jason Priem: COURSE I'M KIDDING there because that's not the case. Right. We see the value dropping hard, but we don't actually see a
Jason Priem: Consistent or we say commensurate decrease in the prices of the subscription. So libraries are spending a bunch of money paying for free content.
Jason Priem: And I think that's equivalent of basically buying the Brooklyn Brooklyn bridge or half the Brooklyn Bridge. Right. It's something that's already there.
Jason Priem: And publishers are coming to us and saying, Oh, well, we'll sell it to you.
Jason Priem: So I was like this quote from this guy who was kind of a prominent figure in history of advertising because he said that he knew that half of his budget was wasted.
Jason Priem: But he didn't know which half. And I think the libraries and a pretty similar situation where we know that half of our budgets are wasted right because half the contents out there for free.
Jason Priem: So we know half of the budgets wasted. But we don't have the ability to know which half of the budget is wasted.
Jason Priem: So the point of unpayable a journalist is to tell you which half is wasted. And by doing that, it gives you a better alternative to or it gives you a better alternative compared to what you had before. If you were to cancel.
Jason Priem: So yeah, it's a data dashboard that helps you maximize your real subscription value.
Jason Priem: And of course, the real is the important thing right there. We're trying to say you have a better way of looking at subscription value so
Jason Priem: We look at the old way of looking at subscription value is pretty straightforward. It's just cost per use right it's the number of downloads and the number
Jason Priem: The cost of the subscriptions. Then we get this cost for us. And that's a way for us to try and say what value are we actually getting out of the subscription. The new way.
Jason Priem: What we're trying to do with unpayable journalist sort of a more advanced version of cost for us. So when we look at usage. We're also adding not just downloads but citations and authorship from your faculty
Jason Priem: So are your faculty citing this journal. Are your fact the authoring in this journal. That's another way of thinking about the value of the journal for you.
Jason Priem: When we look at cost. We also want to will interlibrary loan in there because if you were to cancel, you're probably going to see an increase in Iowa costs.
Jason Priem: So that's why we want to add that to the cost part of the equation. And then finally, we already talked about how important alternative access mostly open access is
Jason Priem: To this equation. And that's, like I said, open access your perpetual access back file that you've already purchased from the publisher and tools like research gate.
Jason Priem: academia.edu Mandalay places that are not really strictly speaking of an access, but they do offer free to read copies of journal articles. So from all of this, we can distill our real subscription value, we can say this is a more
Jason Priem: Complete or advanced way of looking at subscription value. So to build this model, we're going to bring some stuff and you're going to bring some stuff.
Jason Priem: We're going to bring the data that card catalog. Go to show, Jim.
Jason Priem: And we're also going to bring your institution citation and authorship patterns. So we're getting that from kind of collaborate with Microsoft on that they've got this really cool tool called Microsoft academic graph.
Jason Priem: And it is very similar to Scopus with two great differences. One is that it's a little bit more comprehensive while being less comprehensive in Google Scholar.
Jason Priem: And it's also open data, which is really nice because it means we can share with you and you can share with anybody that you want. So that's what we're bringing
Jason Priem: And then you are bringing first and foremost your counter Jenner ones. That's how we're going to tune our model to your specific instances, right, because every campus is different. And even though of course within Sunni there's tremendous
Jason Priem: Heterogeneity between different campuses and the way that they interact with the literature. So what we've done is we've built this model.
Jason Priem: That kind of as all of the different parameters together all of the different types of us all of the different ways we could fulfill that use the model does that. But then we need to customize the model to your specific instance. And the way we do that.
Jason Priem: Is with your counter genuine data. Then we also allied update upload other custom data if you have it. So that would be your custom price lists and any custom date ranges for your perpetual access
Jason Priem: So all of this talking, I noticed a lot of see setting the scene here. But what are we actually getting at the end what the end we're getting a model.
Jason Priem: That projects costs and fulfillment for every journal in your portfolio in your Elsevier portfolio for the next five years.
Jason Priem: And it's worth worth taking a second to make sure to kind of break that down, piece by piece. So as I said, we are building a model. There's a mathematical model behind this.
Jason Priem: We are projecting two main things your costs and your fulfillment, because that's sort of the main pieces on a chessboard right
Jason Priem: You've got a certain amount of money and you're trying to fulfill faculty need, right. And so how much money does it take to fulfill. How much effect on the that's kind of what we're trying to figure out
Jason Priem: We're doing this on a journal by journal level because every journal is going to look a little different. Every journals got some journals have morrow a
Jason Priem: Percentage some journals have less some journals are more likely to use the bat file some journals or less. So everything is tuned to the journal level.
Jason Priem: And then finally we're projecting forward for the next five years. The idea behind this is someone at our South by CNN to say. So when you guys are doing the war gaming a
Jason Priem: Cancellation scenario. And yeah, that's basically what it is right. It's a war game. It's like we're not necessarily going to war right now, but we are modeling, what would it look like if it happened over the next five years.
Jason Priem: So,
Jason Priem: Before I get the last thing I want to show you before I show you the demo is what is this advanced cost per use that I'm talking about, well, we have given it
Jason Priem: For the time being, the snappy name of net cost per paid use. I think we'll probably come up with a snap your name for that.
Jason Priem: Pretty soon here because it takes forever to say, but the idea behind net cost per paid us is that is a more advanced
Jason Priem: more descriptive more accurate version of traditional cost per use so traditional cost per usage just cost over use ratio, little bit of math.
Jason Priem: net cost per page use almost the same, but when we look at net cost. We're also going to include Aiello
Jason Priem: So the way you can think about this is, with an example. I think most the easiest ways with an example. If your journal. The journal. We're talking about cost $1,000 to subscribe.
Jason Priem: And you cancel it and you see an increase in IE LL, the cost you $200 what's the net subscription cost of that journal was 800 bucks right it's sort of, it's the marginal cost, we could say of subscription.
Jason Priem: Because if we were to subscribe. It's not like it's going to be totally free. So that's our that's the top part and then the bottom part of this page uses again this kind of two halves to it.
Jason Priem: Use is, as I mentioned downloads, but also citations and author ships from your faculty. We want to kind of think about all of those ways to use the journal and then paid is the kind of
Jason Priem: topic that I started this this these slides off with which is there's a lot of the usage. That could be met by open
Jason Priem: It could be met by your professional access back file or it could be met by research case. So we do not want to include that.
Jason Priem: As cost per use. Because really we're not paying for that use us for us. Why would we include in our cost per use calculations.
Jason Priem: So remember, we're trying to build a model we're trying to look at fulfillment and costs are trying to project for the next five years. So
Jason Priem: With that, let's take a look at a demo. This is a large us University, we're looking at their Elsevier Freedom package and we're looking at what would happen if they cut the big deal.
Jason Priem: Completely and they subscribed to nothing. So this is just a complete walk away. Elsevier, we're done with you going to switch my screen over to
Jason Priem: The tool and we can see this is your Overview screen for the tool. This is the
Jason Priem: It's kind of the bird's eye view of what this scenario looks like. And there's a lot of content here. So I'm just going to kind of walk through it from right to left.
Jason Priem: I'm starting with subscriptions and the subscriptions bar. It's just one dot for every journal in the Elsevier freedom collection.
Jason Priem: So each of these dots is great right now. Great means that the journal is cancelled. So we've just got 1800 cancel journals all in a row on subscriptions pretty straightforward.
Jason Priem: Fulfillment is a little bit more complicated fulfillment, though, is not not like not too hard to grasp, which is that it's just when someone shows up at a scholarly
Jason Priem: At an Elsevier journal article and they're trying to read it. What's the result. What happens, what do they get well 6% of the time they can read this via research gate.
Jason Priem: Or or another academic social network is generally research date 25% of time, they can read this in the perpetual access back file right they've already purchased access to
Jason Priem: 26% of the time they can read this via open access. So there's an open access copy of this resource.
Jason Priem: And 43% of time is this light gray. And the reason why flight grades because this is sort of the inconvenience zone. I like to think of it as
Jason Priem: This is where the library can still get the resource for the user, right, we can get it via interlibrary loan.
Jason Priem: We could get it via reprints desk, in many cases, the researcher would rather write a colleague and ask for a copy, there's a way to get the resource, it's not out of our grasp.
Jason Priem: But it's not so convenient, which probably going to be some kind of a delay or some kind of inconvenience and post
Jason Priem: So that inconvenience ended up 43% of the time our fulfillment is going to not be so convenient for the users.
Jason Priem: And then finally moving all the way to the left of these bars is our total cost and this is total cost as a percentage of what you were paying before in your big deal.
Jason Priem: This particular institution was paying. If you look over here on the left. I'm going to highlight, they were paying $2.3 million per year for their big deal.
Jason Priem: After the cancellation of course they're going to save a whole bunch of money, they're now going to save 90% of what they were paying before but they're not going to save 100%
Jason Priem: Because they are going to see a little bit of a jump in. I ll costs and want to make sure we include that as part of the model.
Jason Priem: So this is where we this is where we would end up if we just do the cancel and walk away. And that's it. We're all done. And that's, that's not bad.
Jason Priem: We could look at this and say, hey, look, the library saving 90% that's really helpful. And we are asking faculty be inconvenienced 43% of the time, but more than half of the time.
Jason Priem: No fuss. No muss, no one can be used for them, of any kind. So this is a fairly good scenario, but it does get a lot better and where it gets better as remember we're talking about. We want to find which half of our subscription dollars wasted.
Jason Priem: Different journals are going to look different, some journals are much higher value than other titles. Of course you all know that. Right. I mean, some of them are used more, some of them are cheap or expensive.
Jason Priem: So we need to use this net cost per page use metric to sort our journals, figure out which one is the most valuable.
Jason Priem: And gradually, subscribe to just those journals just those high value titles using that cost per page use
Jason Priem: And that's what we've done. So there's these great journals. They look like they're all the same, but actually they're sorted the higher value ones are at the bottom. And when I click this, find the best deal
Jason Priem: I'm going to model what it would look like to subscribe to more journals, starting with the most cost effective.
Jason Priem: And then moving on from there. So we're start with the very highest value, the lowest net cost per paid us. So I'm going to move this slider up just a little bit.
Jason Priem: I'm going to spend a little bit more money. So now I'm spending 20% of what I was spending before
Jason Priem: My cost savings are 80% still some still saving a lot of money. I have subscribed to hover me dances and you can actually look over here on the left and says this 165 journals.
Jason Priem: Again I've subscribed to the most valuable hundred and 65 journals and by doing that I've added some fulfillment. I've now got 50% of my fulfillment is via subscription.
Jason Priem: And this isn't the convenience zone right. This isn't income me. This is great. This is no problem for my factory. So now I've moved my inconvenience to just 30%
Jason Priem: So, one out of three times my factors. It could be as but I'm still saving 80%
Jason Priem: So what if I want to spend with them wanting more money, I, I'm okay, I've got more so I can spend a million dollars. So that's half want to spend before so I'm just going to set this to half. That's about a million bucks. I says right here I'm spending 1.2 million annually.
Jason Priem: So now I subscribed to the best 459 journals and I am getting 24% of my fulfillment via subscription and I only have 20% that I have to address VI LL
Jason Priem: So this would be a pretty good outcome for my university because I'm saving a million bucks a year.
Jason Priem: Only one out of five articles are fact they're going to have to be inconvenienced by and my message to faculty can be that I can say, look,
Jason Priem: Four to five times, you're not going to see any difference this big scary cancellation is going to be business as usual for you, four to five times one out of five times. Yeah, sorry.
Mark McBride: Yeah, Jason. There was a question in the chat and it may be. It's kind of the perfect time to kind of review some of this.
Jason Priem: Absolutely. Yeah. Could you
Mark McBride: clarify the difference between Oh a research gate categories.
Jason Priem: Absolutely. Um, and thanks for thanks for jumping in. So this is a it's basically just a nomenclature issue.
Jason Priem: I think that, you know, some people so open access is a it's always been tricky to define what counts is open access, the way we count it is, it's in the paywall database so
Jason Priem: We've got it in our database. We also say that it's sort of sustainable. We kind of imagine that will be there tomorrow.
Jason Priem: And it doesn't require any sign in, or anything like that. So research gate is kind of got their own thing going where it's more of a proprietary system. There's no kind of persistence guarantee associated with it.
Jason Priem: It doesn't really go through life brain before it's posted. So there have been some concerns about infringing content being posted on research gate more frequently than on
Jason Priem: Traditional or like legitimate repositories. I would say so. Research is just kind of in this another world where it is free to read
Jason Priem: But we don't view it as having the same type of quality as legitimate open access resources. There are some that count research good is open access, and that's fine. It's just like I said, kind of a terminology issue.
Jason Priem: There are others who say, well researched a should have no part of this calculation whatsoever. We don't want to think about research gate.
Jason Priem: It's a commercial service, we're not happy sending our readers there. It's not integrated in the paywall database. We don't want that. So for those folks, that's no problem.
Jason Priem: You can just hit this gear and this is where you can edit. Most of the assumptions of the model. So one of our assumptions is we're going to allow research gate. But if I wanted to, I could
Jason Priem: See that it says ASM that's short for academic social network which is the kind of broader category that research can as part of
Jason Priem: And I can click on this and I'm just going to switch this from true false. We hit Save going to think for a minute and when it's done.
Jason Priem: This 6% research K is just going to disappear. We're not going to include that we're going to assume it doesn't exist, and our readers will never use research gate.
Jason Priem: I think that's probably not as accurate assumption which is why normally I prefer to model with research gate. But that's just kind of an example of some of the like ways you can configure the model based on kind of your preferences. I hope that answers the question.
Jason Priem: Wait a minute, cases any follow up.
Mark McBride: Yeah, thank you very much.
Jason Priem: Awesome, great question, thank you for that.
Mark McBride: So another question that came in is there a way to separate the goal bronze away from pre prints and institutional and disciplinary repositories.
Jason Priem: Yes and no. So we can slice and dice it some ways. I'll just kind of walk through what we've got here so we can
Jason Priem: Include bronze away or not bronze away is another one where it's it is free to read. It's hosted on the publisher site. It isn't a paywall it is in on paywall however
Jason Priem: It doesn't have an open access license. So that's not so good. So if we wanted to, like, throw that out we can we can look at non peer reviewed versions or not so
Jason Priem: This would be I think closest to addressing the question because those are the kinds of things we've seen institutional repositories that are pre print
Jason Priem: People call them submitted manuscripts. A lot of times they have not yet passed through peer review. And so of course that's going to be less desirable.
Jason Priem: Depending on the field like an archive, for instance, that's never really an issue for anybody in higher ed physics and biome. And that may be a much bigger issue. So again, we can model what it looks like to just throw those out.
Jason Priem: And so it doesn't make that big of a difference because there aren't that many of them. So we're at 26% away right now and we throw out
Jason Priem: When we throw out anything that's on peer reviewed, it's going to drop to, like, I don't know, like maybe somewhere around 20%
Jason Priem: It kind of depends on the 22% so we always kind of 4% of our covers that way.
Jason Priem: We definitely we really encourage people to run the model different ways. I'm a little bit slow to react there now, which is a drag, but we're working on that.
Jason Priem: But we really encourage you to run a different ways so that you can have confidence when because faculty can ask these questions right
Jason Priem: And that we kind of constant. Oh yeah, we've we've run those numbers like we we can appreciate that. It's not going to make a big difference.
Jason Priem: And that's a great question. And in terms of getting even finer grained detail into, you know, like green vs vs hybrid or stuff like that. We haven't heard a lot of demand for it.
Jason Priem: We, we tend to think that there aren't very many differences. But if if we do hear more demand that certainly we can add more more parameters to kind of slice it to increasingly find details.
Mark McBride: Right. Thank you.
Jason Priem: Yeah, awesome. And, and thank you again for that question. I appreciate that. So,
Jason Priem: Yeah. So just to kind of finish up on this. Find the big find the best deal thing. I'm just want to share one last thing, which is just that, you know, as you move this. What I like is it kind of really
Jason Priem: Helps you feel the sense to which some of the titles are quite good value, but most of them are rubbish. So here at the bottom. When I subscribed to my first hundred or 200 journals.
Jason Priem: You can see that as I move my my cost up as I spend more money. I don't spend much money to get a lot of value right I'm moving the cost
Jason Priem: Bar up just a little bit and I'm like fulfillment. It's like I'm getting so much more fulfillment. This is really good, really fulfilling, if you will.
Jason Priem: But once I get up into this regime. I'm going to move this a million dollars and watch. I'm all the way to the top and watch how much extra fulfillment. I get from my million dollars a year.
Jason Priem: Very little. Right, I'm getting with x 7% more fulfillment.
Jason Priem: And that's because all of these journals, like, you know, they're not the same, right. A lot of them offer really, you know, reasonable value.
Jason Priem: A lot of them. They're very poor value because they're not for us. They're expensive and they have a high percentage of content. It's available open access
Jason Priem: So when you kind of look at all that together. You can say, okay, well this isn't such a good deal. So the last thing I kind of want to share with this is
Jason Priem: To dig into that idea a little bit more. This overview is good for kind of just looking at the general concepts behind it. And we've heard from a lot of folks, that's very good for them to communicate with faculty and with administrators
Jason Priem: Just because it's kind of a picture's worth 1000 words type of deal.
Jason Priem: But number can be worth 1000 goes to wear a suit and we've got a lot of numbers. There's a lot of math behind this.
Jason Priem: And the tool offers you the ability to dive into any of those. So we've got net cost per paid us is sort of the icon, said the main metric that we're using. That's how we're assessing journal value.
Jason Priem: And we can just see just right off the top even organized by alpha here, the International Journal of electronics and communications.
Jason Priem: Cost is $27 per use that's not a very good value. Once we account for away.
Jason Priem: Academic pediatrics on hand any five cents per use that's a much more compelling value. So we can actually subscribe to it. From this screen to. I'm just going to click that shopping cart and we're going to simulate now having that journal subscribe
Jason Priem: I can sort by net cost prepaid use. So these are kind of the rogue's gallery of the worst possible price for journal. This one's going to run you 1400 dollars per, per view. So you could look at, at one time, or you can buy a kind of okay used car.
Jason Priem: And then if you sort of the other direction which little more optimistic.
Jason Priem: You can see that some of the titles are actually negative net cost prepaid use which is because
Jason Priem: It's going to be very expensive to fulfill these first interlibrary loan or usage is massive. It's just cheaper to subscribe them to to I ll and then you can like I said you can kind of walk through all these, you could search for like one particular topic. So let's say pediatrics.
Jason Priem: So this would give me all the kind of journals with pediatric in the title and I could compare value amongst that set that would be another way you can kind of gauge that
Jason Priem: And then you could also look at a lot of different metrics as well. So I was talking about citations. So I could dive in here.
Jason Priem: And I could give myself a citations column. So that's citations two papers, that's going to be citations remember from your faculty, right, because that's what matters not how side it is overall
Jason Priem: And then I could sort by number of citations and I could say, All right, well cell is my most cited journal that it's the Lancet and allergy and clinical immunology in my, in my
Jason Priem: In my university. These are the top most cited wants a better way to look at citations, though, rather than just looking at this one column is to
Jason Priem: In the settings you can actually wait your downloads. And the way you do that is you just, just type in a number here.
Jason Priem: Every time my university has cited a journal that counts. Now for 10 downloads is just going to be summed into the overall download number
Jason Priem: And kind of the concept. There is just, hey, you know, not all downloads are created equal, right, like if if I'm just browsing abstracts. That's one thing. Whereas if on the other hand I cite the heck out of this particular title.
Jason Priem: Right, it's maybe much more influential in my work. And so we want to be able to kind of include that in our value calculations that said you may not want to include it for other purposes, and I can just set this 10
Jason Priem: I'm going to set that to zero. And I just don't don't count on downloads part don't count citations as part of the downloads.
Jason Priem: Which is a that's kind of up to you. What we do like about creating one number there.
Jason Priem: Is that it's very replicable across different campuses across different communities and, crucially, year to year.
Jason Priem: So you could do the same methodology every year and kind of see what you get. Um, so there's kind of pros and cons to that. Um, let's see. I think I said that was that there's a couple other things that probably could go over, but I want to make sure we save a lot of time.
Jason Priem: For questions I guess I'll oh right to other things just because you guys are using the tool. There's a lot of context specific health and there's there's more common.
Jason Priem: So if you have questions about, like, say, like, what's this free instant uses percent. What's that all about just click on the on the header. Click info and you'll get a little description of what that means. And in this case, what it means is
Jason Priem: All of the instantly available free sources of fulfillment. So that's open access back file and research gate. So it doesn't include like deleted subscription, stuff like that.
Jason Priem: And then the last thing is that if you click on any rose. If you want to really nerd out on the numbers, then you can get
Jason Priem: For each journal, you can get a whole bunch of data about the fulfillment and you can even get it, year by year. So you can see that, for instance, let's say for this title. This is sell
Jason Priem: On year one in 2021 we expect it to be about 500 BACK. FILE accesses or access is that could be fulfilled by the back file on your to it's only 146 accesses your three, it's not
Jason Priem: And that's because of course the bat file is kind of going at a date and sell is the type of title, where people really want to read the recent stuff.
Jason Priem: For every single title. We've got our own model. So it's good. It's got its own model. So for math, for instance, you're not going to see the back file go out of date as quickly and you can kind of dive in here and explore that.
Jason Priem: At you know as much as much detail as you'd like. You can also export a CSV again for for the data nerds out there. OK, now I'm gonna stop talking. I appreciate guys have been super patient as I battled on and I would love to hear any questions the chapel.
Mark McBride: So you can either type your questions in chat or go ahead and mute yourselves and answer your questions.
Mark McBride: Let's see. Any questions in the chat.
Mark McBride: So Jason. May I have one question. I mean other than Sunni and I know you started working with Ohio. Like, who, who else are you what other institutions are you working with on this journals die on a wall that org
Jason Priem: Yeah, good question mark. So the tool is is still pretty new. It's still in beta, which is and we really appreciate the feedback we've gotten from SUNY
Jason Priem: It launched in I guess November. So something like three months old, but we've already actually added a whole bunch of institutions, y'all, like you said, a hyperlink.
Jason Priem: I guess some, some of the list is too long for me to remember right now, but some of the ones that stick out or like Penn State.
Jason Priem: Kind of in your neighborhood. A lot of universe lot of state universities in Texas are using this right now. So, Texas. Texas Tech Rice's and state, but they're they're using it.
Jason Priem: We are working closely with CBL CIO CTO was a customer of a very early version of this.
Jason Priem: So their version, a little bit different, um, there's a couple of very prominent universities that have asked us not to name them. So that's, that's kind of one that we have to be a little bit careful about
Jason Priem: Let's see.
Jason Priem: Yeah, and we're adding adding a few a week. So right now on this kind of picked starting to pick up as we, as we're starting to kind of get the word out or whatever.
Jason Priem: But yeah, we're adding a quite a few. And like I said, some of them are unfortunate. I can't name but
Jason Priem: That's kind of in a general sense, really, all different sizes. You know, I need the big ones because they stick in my head, but like we got a lot of a lot of really small and students, which is really cool. So like
Jason Priem: Like like Boise state's pretty small on the Montana State pretty small. So, so we've got like we were trying to try to get a good cross sample sizes.
Mark McBride: So you have a couple questions here. One coming from Buffalo State currently you assume that the demand doesn't change. But if we use your service over time and add more counter data will look be able to forecast trends.
Jason Priem: Yeah, great question. Great question. Um,
Jason Priem: So what it will do right now is it will update
Jason Priem: So when you when you upload three jr ones right now we are looking at the average in those genuine so if you if you upload three years of gender ones.
Jason Priem: Were looking average because we don't want to look at just the last year in case it was spiky for some reason.
Jason Priem: So that's a sense in which we're looking at you can kind of think as an average as a trend, but at over five years what we could theoretically do
Jason Priem: And don't do. And I think the question is about is we could see that your university is gradually
Jason Priem: You know, they're gradually getting an increasingly good Latin American history department. And so your Latin American history citations. Just keep going up, up, up your Latin American history views keep going up, up, up. Um,
Jason Priem: I think that we will do that right now. We're not doing that. And the reason why we're not doing that is because it gets into a much more gray area about forecasting and we're trying to really stick with the kind of hard numbers of what's actually available right now.
Jason Priem: So this assume that your university is going to say pretty similar. For the next five years. Now that may or may not be true. And we can appreciate. That's a weakness.
Jason Priem: But for now, that's kind of where the tool is over time. I think as we kind of beta and we start hearing more and stuff but I go, we will get into that forecasting game a little bit, but we're going to do it kind of cautiously just because
Jason Priem: A lot can change you know lot can change my university strategies and policies, not so much. It's going to change around these trends around away.
Jason Priem: Like the trends around away are very stable very long term. I mean, you saw that line, right, it's just, it's not a. It's not a wiggly or confusing line.
Jason Priem: Whereas, we're a little bit less, less confident when it comes to say, well, you got a new Provost next year. Like, who knows, right, but it's a great question, and it is something we will be doing gradually
Mark McBride: Another question came in. Can you go over a bit about how the counter data is pulled in.
Jason Priem: How the counter is pulled in. Yeah, sure. Um, so it's kind of interesting with Elsevier, so I'm going to guess a lot of folks are
Jason Priem: Familiar with sushi. But in case it was not just the quick breakdown is so she's an automated protocol that you can use to download your counter files from the publisher and for all publishers, except for one, basically, that's a pretty straightforward process.
Jason Priem: For one of them. It's a complicated process that has lots of instructions associated with it. I will let you guess which the one is that is complicated have lots of instructions, it, it's, it starts with the E and rhymes with Elsevier.
Jason Priem: So our long term goal with this is that the way we pull encounters be totally honest. You don't got. Think about it.
Jason Priem: We hook up to their sushi we import every month your new counter and you've always got the freshest kind of prediction or model, the capacity that
Jason Priem: We're currently working with Elsevier to try and make that happen in the meantime, the way we need to get the data is you email it to us. So you just send us email has a spreadsheet we update it behind the scenes. And then you're good to go. I'm
Jason Priem: In the in between those will be and this will become for sure this year will be just kind of a one click Import yourself so you just like upload file right and then you're like,
Jason Priem: Select your file and upload it like from within the application. So that's kind of a the trajectory that we're looking at on for the counter files that kind of falls, it likes to just share ones and then also
Jason Priem: TR something one. I forgot the name of it, but the counter five equivalent of the genuine. We're also supporting as well.
Jason Priem: I hope that answers the question.
Mark McBride: Yep. Yeah, thank you. Here's another question that came in, are we meant to build in the cost of paying for articles on demand in the IRL transaction costs.
Mark McBride: Would you advise arriving at this number with our current average costs are trying to somehow inflate a little too soon will be purchasing more
Jason Priem: Fantastic question. That's, that's a really good question. So this is transaction costs, just to show everybody is here in the settings.
Jason Priem: And you can set to whatever you want $17 is a very high estimate for most institutions, but that's going to kind of be up to y'all. We everything about tool we're trying to be very conservative in our, in our projections
Jason Priem: A lot of people do it for like 10 or even less than some cases. Um, so then the question is, how do we handle
Jason Priem: You know, something like sounds like. The question is how we have some like reprints desk. So yeah, you would just say, all right, if, if my, what's my average reprints desk costs if it's and you guys users that that's the service you guys use for Documentary right
Mark McBride: Yes, yeah.
Jason Priem: So if
Jason Priem: Your average
Mark McBride: In some campuses. I also think are using the Copyright Clearance Center, but
Mark McBride: But we have a negotiated price with reprints
Jason Priem: Great, so you can fill in whatever you want. So, for a lot of people at somewhere in the ballpark of 30 bucks. So if you fill them with 30 bucks. And this is pretty neat. It'll totally rerun the simulation based on that price point I'm
Jason Priem: Going to thank for SEC. Actually, I'm going to switch tabs and then we'll look at the simulation and you'll remember that before we're paying something like
Jason Priem: An hour. Yeah, repent, like 10% with i love about double are L Iowa costs. So now we're paying like 20% trials. So now when we find the best deal. It's just going to look a little different than we did before.
Jason Priem: We're not going to be a fine. We're not be able to do quite as well on our costs because we're supporting more IRL. But here's what's awesome
Jason Priem: In this group right now this inconvenience zone is like only the tiniest bit inconvenience, because what we can tell faculty is hey, look.
Jason Priem: When you do hit that Article one out of five times that we don't already have access for you.
Jason Priem: You can just reprints desk. You're not gonna wait no two days or whatever. I ll it's there. You can get it right away. And this is something that, again, when we're talking with Gail from FSU i think i'm sure she was on my panel at
Jason Priem: And just awesome like super great resource and FSU did this a year ago, they put a ton of effort into making sure that that transaction was fast.
Jason Priem: And so now they're, they're able to deliver document delivery within seconds, not minutes. And so for the, the user, it's almost indistinguishable from having the subscription in the first place.
Jason Priem: And so I think that's a very powerful way of looking at this. It doesn't actually impact your cost that much. And then finally,
Jason Priem: It is very important part of what we're doing. And this is why I kind of mentioned as part of the net cost is we are absolutely
Jason Priem: Already accounting for the growth in your IRL costs. So you don't need to inflate the number of taking that into account because that's what we're doing in the model for each journal we look and we say, well, if this were cancelled, how much can we meet with free sources.
Jason Priem: Whatever we couldn't meet with resources, we're going to have to meet with IRL or meet with at least a possibility of violent right like it's not like every single thing a person
Jason Priem: Needs. I ll but you know we can say some percentage of time that I ll it and we need to account for that increase in Ireland. So that's why, actually if you look at the slider.
Jason Priem: If I zoom the slider, all the way to the bottom, my costs ladder right now 18% of my budget is I ll and that's because I'm meeting almost nothing with subscription. But if I moved to slaughter way up here.
Jason Priem: Where I'm I'm eating almost everything was subscription. I'm only down to 7% at ILM. And the reason for that is because I have so much more subscription access now.
Jason Priem: Users are not encountering this inconvenience zone very frequently. So they're not submitting very many Aiello requests. If, on the other hand, like I said, I assume this down.
Jason Priem: Well, they're unclear encountering they can be in zone relatively frequently are submitting more requests. I have to pay those I have to pay those I ll charges. So that's, that's the way the model tries to handle this. It's a terrific question. And really important part of how this is calculated
Jason. Thank you very much.
Mark McBride: Any other questions from
Mark McBride: People on the call. Let's see some people have signed off already.
Mark McBride: Comment that this was very helpful. I agree with that. Again, Jason.
Jason Priem: Oh, good. That's awesome. That's good to hear. Thank you very much. Appreciate that.
Mark McBride: So I think one thing that we may want to do. Jason is the Elsevier negotiation team is meeting next week with the publisher and I think, you know, we may want to just reach out to you you and or Heather and just have a quick conversation before our next meeting with them and
Mark McBride: Yeah, waiting to hear back from the negotiation team on that. Great.
Jason Priem: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, we're, we're happy to do that. Okay. All right.
Mark McBride: And you're i think i have access to your calland Lee or whatever app you're using for that.
Jason Priem: Okay, perfect.
Mark McBride: Alright folks. I appreciate everybody making the time for this, Jason. Thank you again for doing another webinar with our community. It's always appreciated.
Mark McBride: And and we'll be in touch.
Jason Priem: Alright, thank you guys so much for for showing up and again with your patience with the it's probably the last one, like said we'll make sure that doesn't happen again and looking forward to continue to work with everybody.
Thanks, Jason.