Zoom Chat: "Owning an Electric Vehicle" - May 9, 2021
All Climate Conversations posted here: https://drawdownseattle.org/conversations/
Learn more about Bluedot Motorworks' Retrofit Hybrid System (RHS) here: https://bluedotmotorworks.com
Additional Resources from the Discussion:
Learn more about Bluedot Motorworks' Retrofit Hybrid System (RHS) here: https://bluedotmotorworks.com
Additional Resources from the Discussion:
- PlugShare (www.plugshare.com). PlugShare is a free application for iOS, Android, and web that allows users to find and review charging stations, and to connect with other plug-in vehicle owners. PlugShare provides the most accurate and complete public charging map worldwide, with stations from every major network in North America and Europe.
- EV-Works. Based on Bainbridge Islands, EV-Works does complete retrofitting to convert ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) vehicles into full EVS as well as extending the range of Nissan Leafs with a replacement battery system from higher capacity batteries.
- Are Electric Cars Really Better for the Climate? From the How to Save a Planet podcast (highly recommended!), a deep dive into all the aspects of owning an electric vehicle. This episode starts with a couple who is debating if getting a used car (EV or combustion) is better or worse than getting a new EV, discussing the power grid considerations (isn't my EV "dirty" if plugged into coal?) and trying to make the "right decision" when things like batteries are so hard to dispose of and there are not good answers at present. As with every other episode, the resources from the weekly podcast are listed in the page.
- Electric Vehicle Batteries: Addressing Questions about Critical Materials and Recycling. The Union of Concerned Scientists discusses: "Electric vehicles are critical to reducing transportation pollution and solving the climate crisis, but manufacturing them at the necessary scale will require significantly increasing production of the batteries that power them. How batteries are made, what they are made of, and whether they are reused or recycled affect the sustainability of this crucial component."
- The Race To Crack Battery Recycling—Before It’s Too Late. From Wired, Millions of EVs will soon hit the road, but the world isn’t ready for their old batteries. A crop of startups wants to crack this billion-dollar problem.
- How Tesla’s Battery Mastermind Is Tackling EV's Biggest Problem. This YouTube video from CNBC discusses: "Lithium-ion batteries are everywhere — in phones, laptops, tablets, cameras and increasingly cars. Demand for lithium-ion batteries has risen sharply in the past five years and is expected to grow from a $44.2 billion market in 2020 to a $94.4 billion market by 2025, mostly due to the boom in electric cars. And a shortage of lithium-ion batteries is looming in the U.S."
- For Electric Cars, Battery Recycling and Demand Reduction Must Go Hand-in-Hand. A new report looks at strategies to minimize the need for new mining for EV lithium-ion batteries.
- Aptera Solar-Powered Car With ‘1,000-Mile’ Range Gets 7,000 Preorders for Delivery in 2021. Looking like a mix between an F-1 car and the Batmobile, the world’s first mass-produced solar-powered car just took several more steps towards its first market day. The Aptera electric trike has three wheels, costs around $25,000, and contains 34-square feet of solar cells which generate electricity to power the car for most daily commutes.
- Electric Cars Don’t Solve Many Of Our Transportation Problems. After years of being derided as a joke by car manufacturers and the public, interest in electric vehicles has increased sharply, especially as governments around the world move to ban petrol and diesel cars. Good articulation of the various considerations of the cost of personal passenger vehicles on cities and communities no matter their power source.
- From the Presentation:
- NY Times Buying Guide (May 2021)
https://www.nytimes.com/article/electric-vehicle-ev-buying-guide.html - InsideEVs comparison of electric vehicles (Nov 2020)
https://insideevs.com/reviews/344001/compare-evs - EVs Offer Big Savings Over Traditional Gas-Powered Cars (Consumer Reports; Oct 2020)
https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/evs-offer-big-savings-over-traditional-gas-powered-cars - The benefits of electric car ownership (Seattle City Light)
http://www.seattle.gov/city-light/residential-services/home-energy-solutions/electric-vehicles - How to decarbonize the grid and electrify everything (TED Talk; October 2020)
https://www.ted.com/talks/john_doerr_and_hal_harvey_how_to_decarbonize_the_grid_and_electrify_everything - Consumer Guide to EVs
https://evconsumerguide.epri.com - To combat climate change, electric cars have to be cheaper (Axios; May 2021)
https://www.axios.com/electric-cars-cost-climate-change-73dce87e-5195-49bf-ac4f-74714f8df789.html
- NY Times Buying Guide (May 2021)
Questions from the Discussion:
- Many People: When will the Bluedot Motorworks retrofit solution (to turn a internal combustion vehicle into a hybrid) be available and how much will it cost? Answer: Hopefully in the next couple of years and about $6k.
- Many People: What happens with the batteries? Answer: It's a big problem we have to address and talked about extensively in the resources pointed to above.
- Sueellen: Has there been an analysis of public transportation relative to owning an electric car in terms of it's overall impact to the climate and environment? Answer: It depends on location, power sources, etc. (although there is a great article discussing this from multiple perspectives on CleanTechnical here)
- Scott Henson: What do people experience on their taxes for EVs? This was a small surprise to use this year.
- Scott Henson: Does the Bluedot RHS system work for FWD and RWD? Answer: Yes, but it also depends on how well your car does being pushed around in neutral.
Chat Log:
00:19:23 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Even if you don’t care about climate change, they are super low maintenance and LOTS OF FUN to drive!
00:21:18 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): What do people experience on their taxes for EVs? This was a small surprise to use this year.
00:21:52 Chris & Kelly: yes, even higher than last year!
00:23:32 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Spark pugs is kinda funny! :)
00:23:34 Chris & Kelly: no catalytic converter for people to steal
00:25:03 Tom: Typical ICE efficiency in actual use is less than 25%
00:25:59 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Our 2019 Leaf with the larger range (220+) was listed at $39k (before all the trade ins and incentives).
00:27:27 Chris & Kelly: We have a 2013 Leaf, gets 80 miles, but paid $11k used
00:28:05 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Used Leafs and Bolts are a great deal (we are looking now). About $10-$15k depending on model/range and year (looking at last 3 years).
00:29:19 Tom: Older Leafs use a somewhat oddball charger that is essentially being phased out
00:29:36 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Are they not CHADEMO?
00:29:52 Chris & Kelly: ..and J1772
00:30:12 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): right…J1772 is EVERYWHERE
00:30:35 Tom: What is needed to use a J1772 with an older leaf?
00:30:58 Chris & Kelly: for '13, nothing
00:32:39 Tom: Good to know...I thought they were CHADEMO only for longer than that
00:44:26 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): I LOVE one pedal driving!!
00:50:30 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Has anyone on this call actually gone through the experience of running out of charge while driving?
00:51:05 Chris & Kelly: very close, but not us
00:51:16 Paul Litwin: Not us
00:51:22 Kathy Dawson: yes (she says with embarrassment)
00:51:43 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Perfect, thank you for owning it Kathy! At the end, you have to tell us what you went through…
00:51:45 Archit: Does WA state have good EV charging coverage to be able to drive to Leavenworth, for example?
00:51:54 Jae Geller: My daughter in law ran out at SeaTac in the winter when she drove the Leaf about 6 years ago and had to spend some time at lot near SeaTac while recharging
00:52:07 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): @Archit - try www.plugshare.com - it will give you a good idea.
00:52:24 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): It’s a map of available chargers
00:52:26 Paul Litwin: @Archit Teslas have great coverage going to Spokane. Not sure of other networks
00:52:26 Archit: Thank you!
00:52:28 Jae Geller: I think AAA has a charging booster option now
00:52:32 Chris & Kelly: huge tesla charge station in Leavenworth
00:52:47 Archit: 👌
00:54:29 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): That is a BUMMER on the battery upgrade…
00:54:51 Kathy Dawson: AAA doesn’t have trucks with high voltage chargers anymore
00:56:28 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): 110, 120 - Whatever it takes Paul! :)
01:03:59 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): I hear a common theme - everyone seems to LOVE their model of EV….
01:04:47 Jae Geller: Yes, Scott! My daughter-in-law and son love their Tesla and we love our Bolt!
01:05:24 Jae Geller: What is the name of the company?
01:05:40 Paul Litwin: BlueDot
01:05:46 Jae Geller: Awesome!
01:05:56 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): https://bluedotmotorworks.com
01:06:52 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Time is definitely NOT on our side to get to full electrification!
01:07:51 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): I wonder if we will have enough Lithium and Cobalt for all of these batteries….?
01:10:54 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Does this work for FWD and RWD?
01:11:11 Archit: this is very exciting!
01:11:19 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Yes, thank you Tom!
01:11:41 Archit: When does your retrofitting solution become available, Tom?
01:11:59 Tom: We're probably about 2 years out :(
01:12:32 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Good awareness building on the solution. Thank you for sharing with us Tom. We will help build awareness with the larger community…
01:12:43 Archit: I was thinking of whether there exists a retrofitting solution, and it's great that your startup is working on it!
01:12:56 Tom: Thanks everyone!
01:13:14 Chris & Kelly: Do people know how to read error codes from their car using your smartphone?
01:13:46 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): There is another company on Bainbridge that has a much more extensive retrofitting called EV-Works here: https://www.ev-works.com
01:25:07 Archit: Interesting, thank you for sharing
01:28:24 Chris & Kelly: I've got a diagnostic thing to share..
01:29:42 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): +1 on what Suellen is saying. We got rid of cars when living in London and it was a game changer for cost, stress, and mobility (because we did not have to worry about parking)
01:32:35 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Here is another resource on this topic as well from How to Save a Planet (Are Electric Cars Really Better for the Climate?): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-save-a-planet/id1525955817?i=1000498394610
01:33:42 Jae Geller: Any word on covered electric bikes or small electric vehicles for around town but that are covered for use in bad weather?
01:35:51 Chris & Kelly: How have folks picked tires for their EVs? low-rolling resistance? light weight?
01:36:27 Kurt Hanish (he/his/him): YouTube video on battery recycling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLr0GStrnwQ
01:37:08 Jae Geller: That is cool to hear, Suellen!
01:37:42 James Little: https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/ev-battery-recycling
01:37:54 Jae Geller: Thank you Suellen!
01:38:27 Chris & Kelly: HFC laws?
01:39:14 James Little: https://www.wired.com/story/the-race-to-crack-battery-recycling-before-its-too-late/
01:40:21 James Little: https://www.treehugger.com/electric-cars-battery-recycling-demand-reduction-5183807?utm_campaign=treehugger&utm_medium=email&utm_source=cn_nl&utm_content=23754891&utm_term=
01:40:43 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): How about this one Jae?
01:40:44 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/aptera-solar-electric-car-receives-7000-reservations/
01:42:38 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): Thank you everyone!
01:43:46 James Little: thanks Paul