Zoom Chat - Putting a Price on Carbon, Jeff Thiel, September 25, 2021

Zoom Recording


Zoom Recordings and Resources from All Conversations 

Join the Basecamp Climate Solutions Conversations for ongoing discussion

Chat Log:
00:14:21 Scott Henson (Drawdown Seattle): All climate conversations and associated materials shared can be found here: https://drawdownseattle.org/conversations/
00:16:00 Barbara Young: So good to be here but need to run pretty soon—loading my car and heading to the dump before it closes.
00:18:41 Amy Theobald: USA
00:18:59 Thor Olson WA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide
00:19:00 Paul E Litwin: Of course it’s the US
00:20:20 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: It’s going up when we start building infrastructure i.e. concrete, steal etc
00:20:27 Paul E Litwin: china
00:20:28 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: CHina
00:20:48 Paul E Litwin: 3rd = Brazil or India
00:21:14 Ann Berner: 3rd = EU
00:22:41 Chris Meinig: 3rd=AUS
00:22:50 Ann Berner: or Russia
00:22:59 Paul E Litwin: EU is not a country!
00:23:07 Ann Berner: 4th = Russia
00:23:13 Chris Meinig: +1 Paul!
00:24:06 Thor Olson WA: UK has enormous wind potential.
00:24:13 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: This can’t be right UK vs industrialized counties of the EU
00:24:15 bob: Unfortunately Germany replaced Nuclear with coal and gas
00:24:29 Paul E Litwin: And that is good, Bob!
00:24:30 Chris Meinig: 4th=Canada
00:24:36 Paul E Litwin: Brazil
00:24:38 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: Russia
00:24:45 laurazeffer: australia
00:24:52 Ann Berner: Indonesia
00:25:28 Paul E Litwin: So how can we count Sweden as both in and out of the EU?
00:26:11 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: Sweden is part of the EU
00:26:31 Thor Olson WA: Sounds like a Schrödinger country
00:27:36 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: France, Germany, Poland, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands just slightly +++ just higher than Sweden?
00:27:50 Thor Olson WA: Pakistan + Indonesia + Nigeria + Brazil
00:29:03 Jamie Shambaugh and family: I’ve never grouped P/I/N/B together = 1bn people - nice one
00:29:37 Ann Berner: It is not that big of a challenge for the US, just do what the EU is doing.
00:32:04 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: Do all countries agree on the calculation factors i.e. King County claims to capture unrealistic amounts of methane (82x CO2) from their landfill and they are not using realistic calculation factors. And that is just one example.
00:32:30 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: How can you bring all countries on the same denominator and the same numbers per industry etc?
00:32:45 Paul E Litwin: I don’t necessarily agreed that carbon pricing is more important the policy changes. I think both are important which relatively I am unsure.
00:33:04 Thor Olson WA: I've got something that will get people to switch.
00:33:52 bob: Problem is political -  Democrates are divided and not working with Republicans that want fee and dividends.
00:34:36 Paul E Litwin: What Republicans?
00:34:46 Paul E Litwin: Certainly not a majority @Bob
00:36:07 Thor Olson WA: This year's weather was different.  For the first time the Pacific and Atlantic weather patterns synchronized with the Arctic.  A result of this was the West opened up and got really hot and dry.
00:36:27 bob: RepubENs - I get emails from them.
00:42:35 Suellen Mele: Re: landfill methane.  It’s worth checking out Heather Trim’s (Zero Waste Washington) presentation to this group in August. She and others are working to keep many organics out of landfills. Excellent work!!
00:43:10 Jamie Shambaugh and family: My recollection is one (perhaps big) reason the recent WA carbon ballot initiative failed  — had to do with how the government was going to distribute the funds —  can’t recall whether that was a “fee and spend” vs “fee and dividend” — though it would be interesting to discuss this — perhaps as an important lesson learned for future such initiatives. I imagine some on this call will be familiar with the last WA carbon initiative I’m referring to.
00:45:50 Thor Olson WA: Notice where he wind power ishttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power
00:46:51 Ann Berner: I-1631 was voted down because voters in Snohomish and Pierce counties rejected it. It was seen as a pocketbook issue by these voters.
00:48:50 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: What do you mean by ‘costly’ ? To whom? Compared to what?
00:50:10 bob: good answer
00:50:14 Chris Meinig: How would you rank the present tax on gas/fuel?
00:50:20 Chris Meinig: in WA
00:59:11 Barbara Young: I need to run in a minute.  Thanks!
01:04:28 laurazeffer: Sorry I need to leave - don’t worry about me
01:10:33 Jamie Shambaugh and family: But we also need it to pass!
01:10:55 Jeff Berner: The price on carbon needs to be ~$100 per ton to be effective. These proposals don't come close.
01:11:20 Jamie Shambaugh and family: i’m with bob
01:11:38 Jamie Shambaugh and family: We have to get something passed
01:11:49 Jeff Berner: $100 per ton corresponds to an $0.88 increase per gallon in gasoline.
01:11:57 Chris Meinig: Where does the 'fee-bate' option lie? 
01:13:21 Paul Litwin: Direct air capture == joke
01:13:57 Thor Olson WA: Depends where and how you do it.
01:14:39 Paul Litwin: Let
01:15:37 Paul Litwin: Let’s take the money and fund all the good things like electrification, solar, wind, etc not these unproven direct air capture and other techno-babble solutions
01:16:11 Thor Olson WA: Electrification is included because it reduces emissions.
01:16:17 Jamie Shambaugh and family: what about a hybrid? Combo of dividend and directed funds at clean energy/decarbonization tech
01:18:06 Thor Olson WA: Whatever it is, Joe Manchin and Krysten Semena are the current gatekeepers.
01:18:50 bob: It looks like HR 2307 has the best chance.
01:19:50 Paul Litwin: Jeff: can you tell us what HR 2307 would pay annually per adult. Is it $20, $200, $2,000? Estimated ball park
01:20:20 Julie Johnson: maybe include some incentive for people to invest their household dividend in carbon reduction efforts
01:20:35 Paul Litwin: Good idea, Julie
01:21:06 Jamie Shambaugh and family: I see co-benefits (e.g. health benefits of cleaner air) as a huge selling point
01:21:38 Paul Litwin: And the world not getting destroyed from climate change
01:24:09 Thor Olson WA: Consider that the lowland forests of the Puget Sound are likely to be grasslands by 2035.
01:24:20 James Little: What's the price per ton in 2050 with this model?
01:26:37 Jamie Shambaugh and family: @Thor can you share your source on puget sound forests converting to grasslands by 2035?
01:27:08 James Little: Why pay a dividend to the wealthy?  Why not use those funds for federal spending that we need? (federal R&D, national smart green fund, incentivize sustainable Ag & Forestry, a climate green fund for developing countries)
01:27:30 Paul Litwin: Agree @James
01:27:35 Thor Olson WA: Good site to monitor the global climate.  Inviting you to watch for the new weather pattern that started this year.https://www.metoc.navy.mil/fnmoc/fnmoc.html
01:28:49 Paul Litwin: Why is it so hard for elected Republicans to do something for the climate?!
01:29:22 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: Just tell them that this way the planet won’t explode
01:29:41 Paul Litwin: Yes, LOL !
01:30:21 Julie Johnson: Republicans will start losing younger voters who realize it is their future
01:31:38 Amy Theobald: It may not matter that they lose younger voters if gerrymandering remains the same, or gets worse with the 2021 census.
01:32:01 bob: Democrates too if they keep fighting.
01:32:22 Paul Litwin: @Amy Right. And that is what they are trying to do.
01:32:30 Jeff Berner: @Paul. Republicans cannot do anything for climate because of large money donors, specifically the Rebekah and Robert Mercer. Support climate change policies and you get primaried.
01:32:47 Paul Litwin: @Jeff pretty sad
01:32:53 Julie Johnson: depressing that our vote is mattering less and less
01:33:35 Thor Olson WA: The climate has its own vote and doesn't care what we think.  If you have any questions on this email me: arolah@yahoo.com
01:33:47 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: Get voters to understand the details and elect capable willing politicians with a sceitif not legal background
01:34:21 Jeff Berner: @Paul. Robert Mercer is funder of Heartland Institute and Art Robinson's Climate Petition Project.
01:36:04 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: European’s are hoping that Joe Biden’s pledge to reduce methane will move forward aggressively
01:36:34 Suellen Mele: Thanks for the discussion about the possibility of a balance of funds directed to critical climate programs along with dividends (to those not wealthy).
01:36:44 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: Maybe it needs to be international vs local
01:37:25 James Little: Thank you Jeff for this presentation.  Very helpful.
01:37:29 Suellen Mele: Thanks so much, Jeff. Excellent presentation and conversation!
01:37:38 Chris Meinig: thanks Jeff!
01:37:42 Julie Johnson: excellent. What is next?
01:38:16 IeRM Philipp Schmidt-Pathmann: Thanks Jeff - important topic that needs action now!
01:39:23 Chris Meinig: Call to action? Next week is important, perhaps call your congress person.
01:39:41 Thor Olson WA: Amen
01:40:10 Thor Olson WA: https://www.coons.senate.gov/climate-solutions-caucus/members